注册 登录  
 加关注
   显示下一条  |  关闭
温馨提示!由于新浪微博认证机制调整,您的新浪微博帐号绑定已过期,请重新绑定!立即重新绑定新浪微博》  |  关闭

韦森的博客

经济学如诗

 
 
 

日志

 
 
关于我
韦森  

复旦大学经济学院副院长

韦森,原名李维森,汉族,山东人,教授,博士生导师,现任复旦大学经济学院副院长。澳大利亚国立大学硕士,1995悉尼大学经济学博士。2000年至2001年曾为剑桥大学经济与政治学院正式访问教授。主要研究领域为制度经济学和比较制度分析,对哲学、伦理学、法学、政治学、人类学、语言学、社会学以及宗教神学等学科也有着广泛的研究兴趣。学术专著主要有:《社会制序的经济分析导论》、《经济学与伦理学:探寻市场经济的伦理维度与道德基础》、《经济学与哲学:制度分析的哲学基础》、《制度经济学三人谈》等。

网易考拉推荐

孙广振-韦森关于商朝和周朝以及中国历史的几段对话  

2007-01-12 07:00:13|  分类: 默认分类 |  标签: |举报 |字号 订阅

  下载LOFTER 我的照片书  |
 

关于商朝和周朝以及中国历史的几段对话

孙广振 - 韦森

 

 

【韦森注】在我的学术圈的朋友中,澳大利亚蒙纳士大学(黄有光教授译法)的孙广振博士是一个非常难得的既深入了解当代经济学个流派(包括主流经济学)发展脉络又极具思想和洞见的“deep thinker”。每次与广振交流,总有收获,总能学得一些东西。以下所贴内容,是昨晚和今晨我与广振的邮件交流。其中他谈到,在历史上,无论从商品经济发展来看,还是其他方面的社会发展来说,商均优于周,这一点尤为值得注意。在历史上,商被周灭掉了,因而在中国历史书(正史)上又对商有诸多贬议,而对周有诸多褒扬。但历史到底是什么样子的?我们今天并不知道。就是发生在我们身边的历史,我们又能知道真相多少?即使有人知晓了大部分真相,但出于不同的宇宙论、价值观以及不同的知识背景,对历史事件的看法也因人而差异甚大。这一点今天尤为值得我们深省和注意。

 

 

1) 发件人: Guang-Zhen Sun

 发送时间: 2007年1月11日 13:53 > 收件人: weisen > 主体 > for your fun

 WS, Hope the e finds you doing great. Just fyr, I am attaching one paragraph copied from Zuo Zhuan, from which, esp. the reply by Zi Chan, that some quality Chinese historians of the 20th century, starting from Xu Zhongshu in middle 1920s and then followed by many  including prominently Hu Shi, Fu Si-Nian and Xu Zhuo-Yun, argued that the term "shang ren" originated from the "shang-people". Strictly speaking, it  still remains a conjecture -- a most likely true conmjecture though. Perhaps we will never really know whether it is 100% true. But my own conjecture that this (kind of) conjecture(s) may never be confirmed cann't be taken  seriously, for my knowledge of the ancient Chinese literature is very  limited -- a big shame.  My TW U office machine does not allow me to write e in Chinese (as you  know, TW people use a completely different method to spell, and key into PC, the  Chinese words). Sorry for that. But I believe it is very easy for you to find the further examinations by Xu's followers including the star scholars > as mentioned above at Fudan's library. But that may not be worth your  time.  As regards to time allocation, well, as a junior friend of yours, I am  perhaps not in a position to say something on your career choice. If I  may, that is it -- quite the fudan adm job soon and do academics before you find  that time is running away too quickly. If you find it offensive (I would then like to apologize), simply ignore it as nonsense.

Best wishes,

gz

附录:

昭公十六年

    韩子买诸贾人,既成贾矣,商人曰:“必告君大夫。”韩子请诸子产曰:“日起请夫环,执政弗义,弗敢复也。今买诸商人,商人曰,必以闻,敢以为请。”子产对曰:“昔我先君桓公,与商人皆出自周,庸次比耦,以艾杀此地,斩之蓬蒿藜藿,而共处之。世有盟誓,以相信也,曰:‘尔无我叛,我无强贾,毋或丐夺。尔有利市宝贿,我勿与知。’恃此质誓,故能相保,以至于今。今吾子以好来辱,而谓敝邑强夺商人,是教弊邑背盟誓也,毋乃不可乎!吾子得玉而失诸侯,必不为也。若大国令,而共无艺,郑,鄙邑也,亦弗为也。侨若献玉,不知所成,敢私布之。”韩子辞玉,曰:“起不敏,敢求玉以徼二罪?敢辞之。”

 

2) 发件人:Weisen

发送时间: 2007年1月11日 18:47 > 收件人: GZ >

 

Dear  GZ,

 Many thanks for your email. I attended the ASE annual conference in Chicago and just came back Shanghai in about an hour ago. As to the genuine origin of Shang Ren, it is does not a seriously academic mater but what it is important is that in Shang Dynasty the market exchange and transactions were already well developed. As to my administrative duty in Fudan, it is really time consuming and distasting.  Many friends of mine have suggested me to quit the job (please read my blog: > http://veisen.blog.sohu.com/ in the top article the comments from Prof. Luo Weidong in Zhejiang Uni. and his suggestion). Actually I have said that to the current dean and the new secretary in our School a few times. I hope that I can get out of the administrative position by the mid 2007.

Pls keep in touch and all the best,

WS

 

 

3) 发件人: Guang-Zhen Sun
发送时间: 2007年1月12日 0:31

aha! WS, you just had a very rewarding academic honey-week at Chicago! Terrific!  Your blog is very impressive, colorful and rich in content. Also fairly thought-provoking. The guy named "buffa" seems quite smart. It is amusing to see somebody claims that your writing reads a bit like a Taiwanese writer :-). I see it as praise and tribute.  Yes, I think you may take seriously Weidong's advice -- not mine, though I happened to coincide with WD -- simply because he has long been playing in the adm system of China's higher edu. and he must be well aware of the pros and cons.   Only a few days before my planned departure for the Chicago AEA meeting I cancelled the already booked flight tickets for USA (Chicago-Boston). I hate long flights. But more importantly is that I was terribly busy recently and spent many hours with my study table everyday.   Shang dynasty appears to be superior to Zhou people in many aspects, not only culturally (as recognized by many), but also economically. How such a highly civilized state was so easily defeated by Zhou (but culturally conquered Zhou) stands as one amazing case among many similar stories in human history, throughout China's history, in ancient Rome, in Islems, in ancient India, etc. The best theory in this regard I have ever came across is provided by Ibn Khaldun (in my opinion). Many human civilizations, even once economically developed remarkably, disappeared. To account for the really long term commercial development without giving great deal of attention to military conflict and bloody wars (and the consequences thereof) might not be a correct avenue to pursue the truth. To be fair, there are so many excellent economic historians telling great stories essentially in this way. Each bird sings his own songs cheerfully. 

Good night!   GZ  

 

4) 发件人: Weisen

发送时间: 2007年1月12日 5:53 > 收件人: GZ >

 

Dear GZ,

 Thanks for you remind me the differences between Shang and Zhou. I read Prof. Wong Young-tsu "Nine Chapters of History" (汪荣祖,《史学九章》) recently and with some great interests and was greatly enlightened too. In his book, I find that some scholars even doubt where there is genuine history in the Chinese traditional society or not - because they believe that all historical works - even like “Shi-Ji” by Si Maqian - are just political or social moral-teachings. So as a great French historian Francios Guizot said in his master piece of " History of the Origin of Representative Government in Europe " - translate into Chinese, 他甚至有些悲观地说:“历史事实决非会向人们展示其全部真相,亦不让人们彻底洞悉其意义。加之,人本身和人所处环境的所有事物均在变化,人考察历史事实的视角和和引领人进行研究的心态也会不断变化,因之,我们可能随现今的变化来描述历史。”( Guizot's book will be translated into Chinese by one of my friends).

 May I put our conversation into my Blog? --- because your comments on Shang and Zhou Dynasties do have some academic contexts.

Best,

WS

 

 

附录:

 

First Paragraph of François Guizot’s (1861) History of the Origin of Representative Government in Europe (trans. by Andrew R. Scoble, London: Henry G. Bohn):

 

“Such is the immensity of human affairs, that, so far from exhibiting

superannuation and decay with the progress of time, they seem to gain

new youth, and to gird themselves afresh at frequent intervals, in order to appear

under aspects hitherto unknown. Not only does each age receive a vocation

to devote itself especially to a particular region of inquiry; but the same studies

are to each age as a mine but little explored, or as an unknown territory where

objects for discovery present themselves at every step. In the study of history

this truth is especially apparent. The facts about which history concerns itself

neither gain nor lose anything by being handed down from age to age; whatever

we have seen in these facts, and whatever we can see, has been contained in

them ever since they were originally accomplished; but they never allow themselves

to be fully apprehended, nor permit all their meaning to be thoroughly

investigated; they have, so to speak, innumerable secrets, which slowly utter

themselves after man has become prepared to recognise them. And as everything

in man and around him changes, as the point of view from which he considers

the facts of history, and the state of mind which he brings to the survey,

continually vary, we may speak of the past as changing with the present; unperceived

facts reveal themselves in ancient facts; other ideas, other feelings, are

called up by the same names and the same narratives; and man thus learns that

in the infinitude of space opened to his knowledge, everything remains constantly

fresh and inexhaustible; in regard to his ever-active and ever-limited intelligence.”

 

  评论这张
 
阅读(141)| 评论(7)
推荐 转载

历史上的今天

评论

<#--最新日志,群博日志--> <#--推荐日志--> <#--引用记录--> <#--博主推荐--> <#--随机阅读--> <#--首页推荐--> <#--历史上的今天--> <#--被推荐日志--> <#--上一篇,下一篇--> <#-- 热度 --> <#-- 网易新闻广告 --> <#--右边模块结构--> <#--评论模块结构--> <#--引用模块结构--> <#--博主发起的投票-->
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

页脚

网易公司版权所有 ©1997-2017